Imagen-The Future of Space Exploration: From BioSuits to Mars with Dava Newman

Introduction

On episode #51 of the Lex Fridman Podcast, host Lex Fridman sat down with Dava Newman, the Apollo Program Professor at MIT and former Deputy Administrator of NASA. Newman, whose Twitter handle appropriately reads "dava_explorer," has been a principal investigator on four spaceflight missions and has pioneered innovative spacesuit technology, most notably the BioSuit. Despite time constraints limiting their conversation to about 40 minutes, Newman's fast-talking, direct engineering approach packed the discussion with fascinating insights about space exploration, the search for life beyond Earth, and the revolutionary spacesuits that might one day help humans explore Mars.

Key Points

• Dava Newman, Apollo program professor at MIT and former NASA deputy administrator, discusses space exploration, space suits, and the future of Mars missions.
• Newman believes we'll find evidence of past life on Mars within the next decade, citing water, organics, and suitable conditions from 3.5 billion years ago.
• The Artemis program aims to return humans to the moon as a proving ground for Mars missions, with lunar exploration helping develop crucial technologies for deeper space travel.
• Newman's innovative BioSuit uses mechanical counter-pressure rather than gas pressurization, potentially offering astronauts greater mobility with significantly less mass.
• For successful Mars missions, fully autonomous systems will be essential due to the 20-minute communication delay with Earth, requiring advanced AI and robust technology.
• Newman emphasizes that Earth remains our primary home, stating 'Mars is not option B' and stressing the urgency of living sustainably on our planet.
• She envisions humans becoming an interplanetary species with thousands living in low-Earth orbit and on the Moon, and Mars missions potentially happening in the 2030s.

The Spirit of Exploration: From Magellan to Mars

The conversation began with reflections on the nature of exploration itself. When Fridman asked about Ferdinand Magellan's crew—the first to circumnavigate the globe in a journey that claimed the lives of Magellan himself and 242 of his 260 sailors—Newman suggested that fear likely wasn't their primary emotion.

"In all of exploration is the challenge and the unknown," Newman explained. "Probably wonderment... when you really are sailing the world's oceans, you have extreme weather of all kinds. When we were circumnavigating, it was challenging and dynamic. You really appreciate Mother Earth."

Newman sees parallels between those early explorers and future Mars missions, particularly in the psychology of the team dynamics. "For a Mars mission, there's lots of challenges with technology, but since I specialize in keeping my astronauts alive, the psychosocial issues, the psychology, the team dynamics, leadership—that's a huge impact, one of the top three of any isolated, confined environment."

Newman's own love for exploration began in her childhood in Montana, where the Rocky Mountains were her backyard. "Exploring, being in the mountains, looking at caves, just running around but always being in nature—since my earliest memories, I think of myself as exploring the natural beauty of the Rocky Mountains where I grew up."

Her fascination with space exploration, specifically, was ignited by Apollo 11. "I was alive during Apollo, and specifically Apollo 11 when I was 5 years old, and I distinctly remember that humanity... doing something that just seemed impossible. The Apollo program really inspired me and taught me to dream—any impossible mission could be possible with enough focus."

Finding Life on Mars: Following the Water

When discussing the possibility of life on other planets, Newman expressed confidence about Mars: "I think actually in probably the next decade we'll find probably past life, probably the evidence of past life on Mars."

She explained her reasoning: "About 3.5 billion years ago, I feel pretty confident there was life on Mars just because then it had an electromagnetic shield, it had an atmosphere, has wonderful gravity level—3/8 g's fantastic. I think we'll find past life, fossilized... the evidence of past life on Mars."

The evidence is mounting, according to Newman: "We do have the organics, we're finding organics, we have water, seasonal water on Mars. We used to just know about the ice caps, north and south pole. Now we have seasonal water. We do have the building blocks for life on Mars."

However, Newman emphasized that human presence would accelerate the search: "We've been exploring Mars for 50 years. Great data, right? Our images of Mars today are phenomenal. We know how Mars lost its atmosphere... but we still haven't found [life]. So I think once we have a human mission there, we just accelerate things. It's always humans and our rovers and robots together."

The Artemis Program: A Stepping Stone to Mars

As the former deputy administrator of NASA during the Obama administration, Newman offered valuable perspective on the current Artemis program, which aims to return humans to the moon before venturing to Mars.

"I love the moon program now, Artemis," Newman said. "We've been in low-Earth orbit... but I just always look at those three phases. Low-Earth orbit where we've been 40 years, so definitely time to get back to deep space, time to get to the moon. There's so much to do on the moon."

However, she hopes the moon doesn't become a permanent destination: "I hope we don't get stuck on the moon for 50 years. I really want to get to the moon, spend the next decade first with the lander, then humans. There's just a lot to explore, but to me it's a big technology push."

Newman sees the moon as a crucial testing ground: "It's only three days away, so the moon is definitely the right place where we kind of buy down our technology. We invest in specifically habitats, life support systems. We need suits. We really need to understand how to live off-planet."

All of this lunar investment, Newman explains, serves the ultimate goal: "The horizon goal is to get people to Mars, but we just don't go to Mars tomorrow. We really need a decade on the moon investing in the technologies, learning, making sure the astronauts are safe and well, and also learning so much in ISRU—in-situ resource utilization."

In-Situ Resource Utilization: Living Off the Land

Newman elaborated on the concept of in-situ resource utilization (ISRU), which will be essential for both lunar and Martian exploration.

"For the moon, we'll go to the South Pole... we know there's permanently shaded areas in Shackleton crater, and there's areas that are permanently in the sun. It seems that there's a lot of water ice—water that's trapped in ice in the lunar craters. That's the first place you go, why? Because it's water, and it could be fuel, life-support systems."

The principle extends beyond just finding water: "We have to think about 3D printing. You don't get to bring all this mass with you. You have to learn how to literally live off the land. We need a pressure shell, we need to have an atmosphere for people to live in."

This approach to lunar exploration, Newman believes, directly informs future Mars missions: "All of that is going to buy down the technology, doing the investigation, doing the science... to me that helps us. That's just the next step in getting humans to Mars."

The Democratization of Space

Newman expressed excitement about recent developments in space technology, particularly the emergence of private companies like SpaceX and Blue Origin alongside traditional government agencies like NASA.

"The investments in SpaceX is government funding, it's NASA funding, US Air Force funding, just as it should be, because you're betting on a company who is moving fast, has some new technology development," Newman explained. "It's great because it's the way you move faster, and also some private industry folks and businesses will take a lot more risk."

She believes the ideal scenario combines both approaches: "The best scenario is both of them working together because there's really important lessons learned, especially when you talk about human spaceflight—safety, quality assurance, these things are of the utmost importance. But both aviation and space, when human lives are at stake... government agencies, NASA, European Space Agency, you name it, they become very bureaucratic, pretty risk-averse, move pretty slowly. So I think the best is when you combine the partnerships from both sides."

Newman also highlighted the democratization of space through technologies like CubeSats—small, modular satellites that have made space more accessible: "CubeSats are fantastic designs, kind of modular design. Essentially, think about something the size of a shoebox... those used to be student projects that we would conceive, design, implement. Now they're the most advanced instrument science instruments flying on little tiny CubeSats that pretty much anyone can afford. So there's not—every nation, every place in the world can fly a CubeSat."

The BioSuit: Reimagining the Spacesuit

Perhaps Newman's most revolutionary contribution to space exploration is her work on the BioSuit—a radical reimagining of the traditional spacesuit that could transform how astronauts explore other planets.

"A very tight-fitting suit," Newman described. "We use mechanical counter-pressure to pressurize right directly on the skin. It seems that it's technically feasible. We're still at the research and development stage. We don't have a flight system, but technically it's feasible."

Newman explained that current spacesuits are essentially "the world's smallest spacecraft" that provide oxygen, scrub carbon dioxide, and maintain pressure. But they're extremely heavy—about 140 kilograms—and limit mobility.

"Since we're going back to the Moon and Mars, we need a planetary suit, we need a mobility suit," Newman said. "That's where we've kind of flipped the design paradigm. I study astronauts, I study humans in motion, and if we can map that motion, I want to give you full flexibility... I really want you to be like an Olympic athlete, an extreme explorer. I don't want to waste any of your energy."

Instead of using a gas-pressurized "balloon" approach, Newman's BioSuit applies pressure directly to the skin: "For mechanical counter-pressure... I only have to give you a third of an atmosphere. If I put that pressure, a third of an atmosphere on you, I just have to do it consistently across all of your body and your limbs."

The helmet remains gas-pressurized but serves a new purpose: "The helmet then in the future of suits... just becomes your information portal. We'll have augmented reality, you'll have all the information you need. The helmet is really allowing me to use all of my modalities of an explorer."

Newman's approach to spacesuit design is multidisciplinary, involving engineers, designers, and architects: "Colors, aesthetics, materials—all those things we pay attention to. So it's not just an engineering solution, it really is a much more holistic... suit."

Autonomy and AI in Space Exploration

When Fridman asked about the role of artificial intelligence in space exploration—referencing HAL 9000 from "2001: A Space Odyssey"—Newman emphasized the necessity of autonomous systems for Mars missions.

"For a Mars mission, we need fully autonomous systems," Newman explained. "That's a really important concept because there's not going to be a Mission Control on Earth with a 20-minute time lag. There's just no way you're gonna control. So people have to be fully autonomous as well, but all of our systems as well."

She drew a parallel to historical explorers: "Magellan and his crew, they left, right? They were autonomous. They were on their own to figure out that mission. Then when they hit land, they had in-situ resource utilization and everything else they brought with them."

While Newman sees a significant role for AI in space exploration, she emphasized that her current focus for AI applications is Earth-centered: "Right now, AI is to eyes on Earth, all of our space data, compiling that, using supercomputers because we have so much information and knowledge, and we need to get that into people's hands. First, there's the educational issue with climate and our changing climate, then we need to change human behavior."

Earth First: The Urgency of Sustainability

Despite her passion for space exploration, Newman made it clear that Earth remains our primary home: "I don't think Mars is option B, actually. I think it's all about saving spaceship Earth and humanity. Earth doesn't need us, but we really need to live in balance with Earth because Earth has been here a long time before we ever showed up, and it'll be here a long time after."

She stressed the urgency of addressing climate change: "That's the urgency, and I think it is the next decade to try to live much more sustainably, live more in balance with Earth. I think the human species has a great, long, optimistic future, but we have to act. It's urgent."

Newman offered a unifying perspective: "When I think people realize that we're all astronauts—that's the great news, is everyone's an astronaut. We're all on spaceship Earth, and this is our mission: to take care of the planet."

The Future of Space Exploration

Looking ahead to the next 50-200 years, Newman painted an optimistic picture of humanity's expansion into space.

"I think that we'll have lots of people—thousands of people, tens of thousands of people, who knows, maybe millions—in low-Earth orbit. That's just a place that we're gonna have people and actually some industry, manufacturing."

She envisions substantial lunar presence: "I can envision a lot of people on the moon. It's a great place to live in or visiting—probably visiting and living if you want to. Most people are gonna want to come back to Earth, but there'll be some people, and it's not such a long—it's a good view, it's a beautiful view."

As for Mars, Newman believes humans will establish a presence there too: "I think we'll have people—we'll be interplanetary for sure as a species. So I think we'll be on the moon, I think we'll be on Mars."

When asked when the first person will step on Mars, Newman was clear about her goal: "I'm gonna do everything I can to make sure it happens in the 2030s. So I say mid-2025, 2035, we'll be on the moon with more people than less... we really need those 10 years on the moon, and then by the late 2030s, we will have all the technology and know-how we need to get that human mission to Mars."

Conclusion

Dava Newman's conversation with Lex Fridman offers a compelling vision of humanity's future in space—one that balances ambitious exploration with practical engineering challenges and a deep commitment to our home planet. Her innovative approach to spacesuit design exemplifies the kind of creative thinking that will be necessary to make interplanetary travel a reality, while her emphasis on Earth's sustainability reminds us that our primary responsibility remains to our original planetary home.

As we look toward the moon, Mars, and beyond, Newman's insights suggest that success will depend not just on technological advancement but on international cooperation, public-private partnerships, and a willingness to take calculated risks. With leaders like Newman guiding the way, the next chapter of human space exploration promises to be as inspiring as the first steps on the moon that captivated her as a five-year-old child in Montana.

For the full conversation, watch the video here.